If GM will go totally bankrupt?

[PopeyeFAFL]

If worst get to worst (GM goes belly up).What will happens with our Vibe?1- Does GM have a legal obligation of supplying parts for 10 years, 20 years ?2- I guess as far as mechanics is concern, we can always go to Toyota.3- Knowing how many were produced, do you think that someone can keep it without almost noticy it (enough demand for those running right now).Your thought.

[ou.grizzly]

It is interesting to see how the American Automakers have been doing since they all reported losses. Here in MI, our Governor contacted Washington as IF GM and Chrysler do merge (even though talks have been called off) another 30,000-40,000 jobs will be lost on top of what already has been. Michigan Unemployment went bankrupt back in 2006 and has been borrowing money from the Fed's since then. Indications were given that the Fed's will not bail out the American Automakers with an additional monetary donation as they view the situation not a top priority right now. Within the next 6 months, things are going to get a lot worse. Parts - mainly Toyota right? Body panels?

[northvibe]

I honestly dont think the government would let ford or gm disappear. They bailed out some shady *** mortgage places and banks...they could do that for the two big auto makers.

[ColonelPanic]

+1. I agree that the government would probably want to step in at some point. And our new president elect seems pretty concerned about keeping them around so I think they'll get some help somewhere.

[blake31]

maybe the oil companies could help them out. they are raking in record profits, and they need cars for people to continue to use their products.

[Silversn95]

When push comes to shove, I don't think GM will be allowed to fail. There will be some form of bail out. I don't think the general public is aware of the impact that our auto industry has on the economy. It won't just be GM employees and customers affected. The whole North American economy will definitely go into a deep recession or further into a depression (if you don't already consider it in one).One thing is for sure, if GM goes down, servicing and maintaining our GM products will be the least of our worries.

[Racemedic]

Can you even imagine the world with out GM??? I just can't see how the Canadian and American governments can let that happen... They are a part of the fabric of both countries. It blows my mind to see them letting all those people go and talking about being in real trouble.... even Toyota is not immune. This can't go on forever. Everyone is hurting the markets are down It just has to self correct (right?) I would hope that someone would pick up parts production for the cars and as well take over warranty'sLets all hope that it does not come to that

[scherry2]

GM is not entertaining Bankruptsy as an option. I'n his address to the employees this was the first statement.20 reduction in white collar workers and 3600 blue collar workers thru line speed reductions at 10 different plants and former plant closures. Kind of hard to claim bankruptsy when you have just invested $300 million into a Russian plant assembling the Captiva and Astra. And GM can't build enough extended cab 4x4 trucks, days on hand is 60. GM likes a 100 day cushion.

[kostby]

What few people recognize is that it was our Federal government that gave a huge helping hand to the 'Big 3', running them into the ground with 1) idiotic gas mileage (CAFE) standards, 2) crash-test standards (making airbags virtually mandatory and cars impossibly costly to repair after a crash), 3) NAFTA - moving hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs south of the border and offshore, and4) monetary policy (lowering the Fed bank rates so low that money was virtually 'free', hence 0% 6-year car loans the last few years).The libertarian in me screams:Let The Free Market decide what is fuel-efficient, safe, an honestly-priced domestic product, and at a fairly-priced loan rate, NOT government bureaucrats!

[jimincalif]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »The libertarian in me screams:Let The Free Market decide what is fuel-efficient, safe, an honestly-priced domestic product, and at a fairly-priced loan rate, NOT government bureaucrats!Amen my friend. Don't forget too, the recent monetary policy that crashed the dollar and spiked oil prices, raising gas prices and killing off the SUV market, and killing off consumer spending since we were all pouring it in the tank.

[jake75]

Many companies go bankrupt and still operate. Look at the airlines. Look at Penn Traffic Supermarkets. Stockholders lose all. Bond holders get paid only a portion- or they are given stock in the new company in exchange for their debt. Labor contracts are cancelled. Leases (on propety and machinery) can be repudiated.

[northvibe]

so the government had stadards and the big 3 didnt want to comply saying it was too hard to make better gas mileage cars...well since they ignored that...look at what is making them do it NOW. Toyota, honda, and all the other car companies that CAN make a effiecent car. this is mostly BS as the 3/4 bangers from the 70s and 80's got 30+ mpg. having it so far fetched in 2008 is total crap. they just have old people up top that want to keep it all the same and what they know so they fell behind and now this is what they face. So instead of the gov. telling them its now the market well they are now so far behind you only hope the volt and fords new ev can take off. you cant say the big 3 arent to blame at all...its a lot of their own fault. if you look at the gov standards they were real easy compared to other countries.

[coldmm803]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »The libertarian in me screams:Let The Free Market decide what is fuel-efficient, safe, an honestly-priced domestic product, and at a fairly-priced loan rate, NOT government bureaucrats!i agreeQuote, originally posted by kostby »What few people recognize is that it was our Federal government that gave a huge helping hand to the 'Big 3', running them into the ground with 1) idiotic gas mileage (CAFE) standards, 2) crash-test standards (making airbags virtually mandatory and cars impossibly costly to repair after a crash), 3) NAFTA - moving hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs south of the border and offshore, and4) monetary policy (lowering the Fed bank rates so low that money was virtually 'free', hence 0% 6-year car loans the last few years).not trying to start an argument. i don't hear any other companies complaining about mileage or crash standards.they could easily increase gas mileage by increasing the number of gears in transmissions. heres a chart that i scanned in from a june 2007 issue of an automotive engineering magazine. so, why are we still using 4 speed automatics? 7%+ increase going to 6 speed why are so many new vehicles coming out with 200+ horsepower thus poor gas mileage when they don't NEED that much power? (i understand that some large SUV's or cars do need 200hp because of their size and/or weight) why don't more vehicles offer cylinder deadening where 2 of the 6 or 8 cylinders will turn off at highway speeds. why don't vehicles have a user selectable mapping so the driver can select an economy mode or sport 1 or sport 2 with varied amounts of power? (similar to forced induction cars and selecting boost levels)

[Silversn95]

Regarding transmissions, 5 & 6 speed autos are becoming the norm. I think Ford will have them on every product line except maybe the focus. More speeds definitely makes sense and is one area all OEM's are looking at to get to the 35+ mpg number. But these changes can't happen over night. It takes time to design these into current and future powertrains. Until the big gas spike of the last year or so, the customer focus was not on mileage. This is why there are so many seemingly overpowered cars on dealer lots right now. Don't forget how fast the consumer changed on these manufactures. It is an industry that can't turn on a dime. Ford is retooling plants now that once made F150's to bring over some of their excellent small cars from EU. Even still, you won't see these new models until 2010 at the earliest. New power trains are in development now to provide the power and performance customers expect while improving efficiency. I know Ford is even looking at the Ecotec V6 as an engine in the 2011+ F150. This engine has the fuel economy of a midsize 6-cylinder with more power than the current 4.6L V8 (I'm quoting Ford only because I'm more familiar with them). I'm sure GM as engine development in the works as well. I hope they are not just focusing on the Volt.

[jake75]

Today GM stock is expected to tank even further as some analyst's have given up hope pf GM avoiding bankrupty predicting a zero stock value. Will my 1500 share sof Ford be far behind?

[ZubenElGenubi]

As a person who leans to free-market policy, I'm appalled that the government is considering injecting capital into the Big 3. But if it must be done, then some serious conditions should be made in addition to payback to the government. The 1979 Chrysler loan is a good example of how such an agreement could be reached. And, that loan was paid off early.I wouldn't be opposed to making MPG and emission standards a part of conditions for funding. I would also rather see the money paid out over time as milestones are met, rather than up-front.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »I honestly dont think the government would let ford or gm disappear. They bailed out some shady *** mortgage places and banks...they could do that for the two big auto makers.The UAW backed the Democrats during the campaign, so now it's pay back time. GM could survive bankruptcy, but it would mean job losses and loss of union benefits. My friend, who worked for USAir when they filed, was part of the airline union. He lost his pension and other benefits, even though the company survived. His salary and benefits, while still pretty good, have never been the same. Nancy Pelosi has already met with the UAW. That's just my opinion, but I think we'll see a GM bailout rather than allowing them to file for bankruptcy.

[5speed4]

GM is offering some good fuel efficient cars now. Consider the following models (note these are all 2009 models and are rated under the new 2008 EPA standards...to compare to pre-2008 standards add approximately 13.5% to the numbers you see here...see fueleconomy.gov for complete explanation):1) The Chevy Cobalt XFE and Pontiac G5 XFE at 25/37 mpg (city/highway, respectively)2) The Vibe (yes, it's really a Toyota rebadge ala NUMMI, but still, it's in their Pontiac line-up and GM still has to pay their UAW workers at the plant so they should get some credit for it) at 26/32 mpg 3) The Saturn Astra at 24/32 mpg 4) The Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu at 22/33 mpg (also the Hybrid versions at 26/34 mpg)5) The Chevy HHR at 22/32 mpg (almost got one of these instead of the Vibe)6) The Chevy Aveo (and Aveo5) and Pontiac G3 Wave (and G3 Wave 5) at 27/34 mpg7) The Pontiac G6 at 22/33 mpg8) The Saturn Vue Hybrid at 25/32 mpg9) The Chevy/GMC C15 Hybrid (full-size 1/2-ton ext-cab truck) at 21/22 mpg10) The Chevy/GMC C15 XFE (full-size 1/2-ton ext-cab truck) at 15/21 mpg*XFE stands for eXtra Fuel Economy (a version GM started offering in 2008 models)(Note that many of these vehicles are leaders in their classes, MPG-wise, while also leading in torque and/or horsepower at the same time)Coming in late 2010 (for 2011 model year) they have the Chevy Cruze (slightly larger replacement for the Cobalt see http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...cruze/ ) which is reportedly getting a turbo 1.4L that gets 45 mpg highway, and of course, and also in late 2010, the plug-in hybrid Chevy Volt.It may indeed be true that they put too much of their business plan into trucks/SUVs (and lost a lot of their market share in less profitable cars), but that's because that was where the money was up until about two years ago. That is, it was smart business then.

[Vibe2009]

Well guys... from what I am reading, if GM do go bankrupt and yet stay zombie like.... It will probably mean letting go some divisions... and Pontiac looks like the one!I hate to see this happen....

[5speed4]

Yes, that will be a real bummer if Pontiac goes away. Is that a real possibility or just rumors? If it's real, I wonder what would happen to the Vibe. Would it get pulled over into Chevy (the Saturn Astra is too much like the Vibe to have the Vibe go to Saturn) or would it just go away?

[kowell]

For some reasons a Vibe with a golden chevrolet bowtie doesn't seem that attractive to me.... specialy after seeing the new front facia of the 2009 aveo hatchback.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »Yes, that will be a real bummer if Pontiac goes away. Is that a real possibility or just rumors? If it's real, I wonder what would happen to the Vibe. Would it get pulled over into Chevy (the Saturn Astra is too much like the Vibe to have the Vibe go to Saturn) or would it just go away?Saturn and GMC would probably go too. I would say Buick, but Buicks sell big in China, so they might survive.

[ColonelPanic]

They could whack the whole Pontiac/Buick/GMC channel, but there's that whole China thing. People here aren't as fond of Buicks as they are there. Although some of the Buicks in China are rebadged Daewoos anyway.GMC is definitely a candidate for dumping, putting different trim on the same products available from Chevy is a bit redundant. Pontiac is a good candidate for getting rid of, sadly. But whoever GM would choose to eliminate, they're sure to end up with a lot of disgruntled dealers body that will require a lot of money to buy them out... they probably don't have the cash for that right now. GM took a big hit on Olds paying off the dealers IIRC.

[ColonelPanic]

They could whack the whole Pontiac/Buick/GMC channel, but there's that whole China thing. People here aren't as fond of Buicks as they are there. Although some of the Buicks in China are rebadged Daewoos anyway.GMC is definitely a candidate for dumping, putting different trim on the same products available from Chevy is a bit redundant. Pontiac is a good candidate for getting rid of. But whoever GM would choose to eliminate, they're sure to end up with a disgruntled dealer body that will require a lot of money to buy them out... they probably don't have the cash for that right now. GM took a big hit on Olds paying off the dealers IIRC.

[safooma]

IF GM goes bankrupt, what would happen to the warranties on our vibes?

[5speed4]

I don't think the warranties will be in danger. It would take GM actually going out of business to nullify warranties. If they simply gobankrupt, they would still honor warranties or else they'd lose what (ever smaller) market share they have.

[Silversn95]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the site autoextremist.com but you should be. NUMMI is mentioned in this article. -----------------------------------------------------------------------THE AUTOEXTREMIST November 12, 2008 Tick, tick, tick...By Peter M. De Lorenzo Detroit. So it has come down to this for General Motors: 100 years of living, breathing American industrial and social history is on the precipice of total disaster, with the once-glittering corporate icon facing certain collapse if some sort of government financial aid package is not put together in the next 60 days. Think about that for a moment. The company that basically powered this nation through a century of progress and helped this country muster the strength to fight world wars - while contributing immeasurably to the fabric of America and the development of our vast middle class - is on the verge of filing bankruptcy. Unbeknownst to the legions of people out there in “fractured” America, the ones who fill the Internet with bile and who project such a level of viciousness and unbridled glee at the thought of the collapse of our domestic automobile industry as if it were – amazingly enough - some warped opportunity for celebration, there are countless towns, big and small, scattered all across this nation that have grown up with GM as their main employer and the main source of income for thousands of American families.I am absolutely convinced that the people who hate “Detroit” and want it to implode have not even the faintest of clues as to what it really means if it were allowed to happen. To those instant experts out there who are reveling at the thought of a major part of our country’s industrial fabric collapsing, I say be careful what you wish for - because if GM is allowed to fail, it will take the entire domestic auto industry down with it - meaning thousands of suppliers and dealers in towns making up a cross-section of America will go under too.For the record, there are around14,000 domestic-oriented dealers in the U.S. employing approximately 740,000 people with a payroll of around $35 billion – that’s billion with a “B.” But that’s just the dealer side of the equation. When you add in the suppliers and all of the associated businesses that either directly or indirectly depend on Detroit for their livelihoods, we’re talking almost three million people who would be out of work in a matter of just a few months, adding up to a $150 billion loss in personal income.Let’s take California, for instance. Judging by our reader mail, there seems to be a large contingent of people out there who adamantly believe that “Detroit deserves to die” etc., etc., and that whatever happens “won’t affect me.” But GM and the domestic auto industry’s collapse will most definitely affect Californians as well. NUMMI, a joint operation between GM and Toyota (the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe are built there) and the only San Francisco Bay Area car factory, is already reducing shifts and may even shut down its Tacoma pickup truck line due to the burgeoning economic slowdown. One of our readers who understands the ramifications of a domestic industry collapse passed this interesting local news report along about NUMMI, which said, "There are tens of thousands of additional jobs on the line besides the 5,000 at NUMMI. There are over 1,000 suppliers in California that provide parts. They in turn employ 50,000 people."That’s just one factory. Now multiply that by the staggering totals involved if GM - which has 22 stamping plants and 26 powertrain plants in North America on top of its assembly facilities - and the rest of the domestic automobile industry is allowed to fail. The tentacles of this kind of cataclysmic disaster would spread throughout the nation like a virus that could not be contained. I really don’t know why it’s so easy for people out there to dismiss the collapse of the domestic automobile industry as being some minor event that won’t affect them in the least, because each person who is part of that figure of three million represents a real family and real human story, all across this nation. It’s the mom and pop diners, stores and peripheral neighborhood businesses that depend on the workers who toil at these factories and plants for their livelihoods too. There are towns all across America that would simply dry up and blow away if the local GM or supplier plant shut down. That’s not an exaggeration, that’s a simple fact. I have been vilified of late by numerous critics for shifting my commentary to a more political tone over this election year, but I don’t offer any apologies. This country is not only in the throes of a financial crisis, it’s in the throes of a fundamental identity crisis as well. We as a nation have been lulled into thinking that things will work out and that any unpleasantness headed our way will be mere speed bumps on our journey to becoming a state of perpetual consumer bliss.Well, it just doesn’t work that way, folks. We live in a global economy that isn’t big on history or what we as a nation once did or stood for. We have to compete, or else we will arrive at a point when our national future will transition from being one of destiny to one being dictated to us by a unsavory set of circumstances and interests not in line in the least with our hopes, our dreams or our thinking.In order to compete in this global economy we have to get smarter in our schools and with our educational policies. A high school graduation rate of 50-60 percent should be anathema in our inner cities instead of too often the rule. Remedial classes for kids entering college (who are not able to handle freshman classes) should become a thing of the past. And our teachers need to be compensated realistically and properly so more of our brightest people can sign up to help shape our kids’ futures.Even though we as a nation don’t seem to have the stomach for hard work and sacrifice any longer - hell, I’m not sure those words and their meanings are even in the lexicon of vast swaths of our population - we must get tougher in the midst of this global economy, and we have to steel ourselves for the kind of battles we’ll face. And that means shoring up our manufacturing and supporting our homegrown industries that are so intertwined with communities all across this still great nation. It also means that President elect Obama will not only be President of the United States, he will have to be CEO of America, Inc. too.And America Inc. not only needs to be rebuilt, it needs to be fortified with new determination because there are far too many talented and creative people in this nation who can do extraordinary things and we need to make the idea – the idea that we can innovate, create, build and manufacture things that are the envy of the world - cool again, and take pride in doing so as well.In short, this nation needs a wake-up call.Anyone who thinks this country will not be thrown into a full-blown depression if the domestic automobile industry is allowed to fail is simply kidding themselves. We are facing a perfect storm of events that could spell disaster if we as a nation don’t act and act fast. And it would take years for this country to recover too.As I’ve said repeatedly the time for all of the idyllic, “let the free market run its course” hand-wringing is over. It’s far too late for that. This country’s leadership needs to get these loans to GM and the rest of the domestic automobile industry in the next 60 days, or life as we’ve come to know it in this country – and I mean every part of this country – not just here in the Motor City, will be severely and unequivocally altered.That tick, tick, tick you hear?It's the time running out on the future of America. Let’s hope that what needs to get done will in fact get done, before it's too late.Thanks for listening.

[5speed4]

I'm pretty libertarian, but I do believe that the Big 3 deserve a gov't loan (note that that's not the same as a bail out). The reasons are as follows:1) The horrendous loss of jobs that would ensue without it, directly and indirectly, would throw us into a depression (not simply a recession).2) GM and Ford, at least (not as familiar with Chrysler), have both made big strides in improving quality and fuel efficiency in all their cars. That should not be overlooked. It would be one thing if they were still pumping out the same number of gas guzzlers with the same poor quality we saw throughout the 80s/90s and were standing there with their hand out, but that's not the case. They were making great progress until this credit crisis happened. They simply ran out of time/money. 3) The horrendous loss of retirement pensions and health benefits would add a whole new dimension to the downturn. In my opinion, that alone might result in the country heading full-steam into socialism.4) The USA needs a manufacturing industry for national security reasons. Auto manufacturers helped win WWI and WWII by turning over some of their production capabliities to producing tanks, jeeps, military trucks, etc. We can't lose that.I would like to add that if the UAW had any brains, they would right now be stepping up and offering to take temporary cuts in pay and benefits to help enable solvency. The upper management should be doing the same.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 » I would like to add that if the UAW had any brains, they would right now be stepping up and offering to take temporary cuts in pay and benefits to help enable solvency. The upper management should be doing the same. ummm we already have. $14 per hour for new hires or non essential jobs. not being a smart alek but don't you think that grown men who run a billion dollar industry already thought of your idea? nuff said.

[oriden]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »ummm we already have. $14 per hour for new hires or non essential jobs. not being a smart alek but don't you think that grown men who run a billion dollar industry already thought of your idea? nuff said.apprently not as they are still neck deep in ****. a loan NOT a goverment baill out is in need here.

[5speed4]

Quote »don't you think that grown men who run a billion dollar industry already thought of your idea? nuff said. That small token (accepting lower wages for new hires) is no help in this situation (I can't imagine the Big 3 are doing much hiring these days). Let's hope you're right and the UAW does have brains and they are considering real cuts (I'm talking about something along the lines of current UAW members offering to take a 30% cut in pay and other benefits (any less would be too trivial to matter). Management should also agree to similar cuts.

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »I'm talking about something along the lines of current UAW members offering to take a 30% cut in pay and other benefits sorry ain't gonna happen. the UAW have forgone raises for 8 years. have taken pay cuts in cost of living, reopened the contract and took various cuts. and various other cuts. the heads of GM are making millions per person and I've yet to hear anyone above superintendant level take any kind of cuts. here is an idea why don't you go to UAW.com or org and learn about the UAW and why they do what they do. http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

[5speed4]

That link pretty much says just what I said above in my post. I have a pretty good grasp of the situation, and I've already said I support a gov't loan to help them through this crisis. I happen to like GM cars.I also already understand why the UAW does what it does...to give auto workers a comfortable living. It's a nice thought but it doesn't work that way unless the Big 3 are flush with money. That's not even close to true any more. Something has got to give. I did a Google search looking for any mention of the UAW offering to take any cuts to deal with the current crisis. There was no mention of any, so either they are secret or the union simply doesn't get it. They are biting the hand that feeds them and, unfortunately, the hand is going gangreen this time.

[kunkstyle]

Why GM should be allowed to fail:http://www.reuters.com/article...81111Interesting article.

[ou.grizzly]

There are members of this board who work for GM and various companies who are direct affiliates of GM. By no means would I wish ill fortune on the company that in one way or another pays for these members services.All have houses, families, and etc. If there is no income, things can go south fast. Just a friendly reminder to all as good people do not deserve nor warrant "bad or tough" times. I am sure the stress of worrying is enough. Be a little more kind please.

[Silversn95]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »Why GM should be allowed to fail:Interesting article.Actually that article says next to nothing as to way GM should fail. I think the benefits financially to the company for going that route are dwarfed by the horrible impact it will have on the economy. GM needs cash now or they won't even have the money to maintain operations. They need loan garrantees which is what the 'bailout' more than likely will involve. This would get them the money they need until thinks pick back up.As for the union, I've never been a fan of any union but I don't blame them for this or think they necessarily need to give more than what was pulled back in the last contract. I think the blame still goes to the management in these companies for not negotiating tougher years ago. When times were good 10 yrs ago the company gave everything the union wanted from the pay increases, signing bonus's, improvements in benefits....hell, one contract negotiation at Ford involved giving Dell home computers to all union employees!!! I'll give credit for the UAW at least to accept the two tier wage system which will help reduce the future costs at GM, Ford and Chrysler. Too bad the CAW didn't think that far ahead. Add our less favourable contract to our governments lack of understanding in the industry and we might see a large pull-out of the industry in Canada. From what I'm seeing in the news, just about every country involved in the auto industry is planning some sort of 'bailout'(I hate that word has they or not just throwing money at it) to help their local industry....except Canada which pisses me off to no end.

[5speed4]

In light of the fact (see this link:http://finance.yahoo.com/insur...enatethat it looks as though the automakers aren't going to get the relief they need, at least until the new administration and/or new Congress are sworn in, it would be a good idea if the union stepped forwardsoon and said to upper management, "We'll take temporary cuts if you'll take temporary cuts."

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »it would be a good idea if the union stepped forwardsoon and said to upper management, "We'll take temporary cuts if you'll take temporary cuts."I'm sure that statement has already been said. about the same time the UAW said to GM "don't worry about that $1.9 billion to V.E.B.A. payment your late on, you can pay it later". and probably about the same time the Union asked "where are you getting the $900 million your investing in that plant in Russia? better look at both sides of that coin there buddy.

[5speed4]

Has all this occurred within the past 2 months? Because that's the point when this downturn turned into a crisis. They were hurting before that, but they were able to limp by. It's my understanding that the overseas sales are what's keeping the US automakers alive, so you can't blame them for investing more there. Their overseas sales have been supporting their US operations for quite some time now.

[scherry2]

what ever you say. I suppose its my fault for staying at GM for 30 years working the line and not bettering myself by going to school and get a better lower paying job. if GM can get rid of 7000 salary employees in the N.A. operations and still function as a business what was wrong?

[scherry2]

Taken from the Detroit Free Press:As Detroit's crumbling auto industry asks Congress for a bailout, Chrysler is in the awkward position of paying about $30 million in retention bonuses to keep top executives while the company cuts thousands of jobs.Those promised the largest retention bonuses:• Frank Ewasyshyn, executive vice president, manufacturing, $1.89 million.• Frank Klegon, executive vice president, product development, $1.8 million.• Rae, $1.66 million.• Simon Boag, president, Mopar/global service and parts, $1.65 million.• Steven Landry, executive vice president, North American sales, $1.63 million.• Michael Manley, executive vice president, international sales, marketing and business development, $1.53 million.5speed4 What do you think about this? when the Top executives at Toyota only make $100,000.00

[ou.grizzly]

5speed4 might be one of those execs?

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 »I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the site autoextremist.com but you should be. NUMMI is mentioned in this article. I have a link to Auto Extremist in my signature. It's a very informative site, and the author seems to really know his stuff.

[5speed4]

scherry2,Have you even been reading my posts at all? Your answers sound like knee-jerk reactions. In every one of my posts above I said upper management should be taking cuts as well. Your last post only proves that point. No, it's not entirely the union's fault, but it's also not entirely management's fault as you seem to think. YOU BOTH NEED TO TAKE CUTS IF GM IS TO SURVIVE.

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 »What do you think about this? when the Top executives at Toyota only make $100,000.00I would say those exects are stupid.

[Silversn95]

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »I have a link to Auto Extremist in my signature. It's a very informative site, and the author seems to really know his stuff. Peter De Lorenzo is the author and founder of that site. He and his family have been in the automotive industry for decades and has an exceptional insight to what goes on. I have been working in this industry for nearly 17 yrs and have been reading the autoextremist for the last 4 yrs. 99.9% of the time I'm in full agreement with what he states. Too bad he doesn't run GM.

[mikey123]

At the risk of being lambasted as a "socialist", why not reinstitute trade tarrifs to help protect our industries. If we don't do something drastic such as this, our economy will continue to slide and we will never recover. Ever since the implementation of free trade and the global economy, our jobs have always been going to countries where the pay is much lower, and the environment is of no concern. This leaves us with 2 choices. Accept the current global economy setup, and the fact that all of us will have to lower our standard of living until it is even with the rest of the world, or implement trade fees to level the playing field. Manufacturers in North America will always be at a relative disadvantage compared to countries like China, where costs are so much lower (and pollution is infinitely higher). The current global economic setup is dangerous for developed countries. We should be buying local for many reasons, not the least of which is to protect our economy, but our environment too!!!

[scherry2]

Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »scherry2,Have you even been reading my posts at all? Your answers sound like knee-jerk reactions. yea I have. I would like to ask what profession your in? cause I want to tell you all the reasons YOU should take a pay cut.I want to tell you all about how you can be replaced by lower wage people working for "global market rate". I want to tell you how if you didn't make so much money the product you manufacture would be 1/2 price.I want to tell you that for a husband making $14.00 per hour for a family of four is poverty.and if your a college student.........I would like to... but I've been down that road so I'll just say:your right and I'm wrong for even questioning you wisdom.

[5speed4]

I am a Ph.D. scientist working at a laboratory that is probably going to RIF me out of a job within the nextyear. I design and write scientific software applications. I really didn't want this to escalate to this level. Let's just agree to disagree on the matter, and agree that we both hope for the best outcome for the automakers. Maybe in a few years, they'll need a software engineer for their scientific and/or engineering applications.

[PopeyeFAFL]

Quote, originally posted by mikey123 »At the risk of being lambasted as a "socialist", why not reinstitute trade tarrifs to help protect our industries. If we don't do something drastic such as this, our economy will continue to slide and we will never recover. Ever since the implementation of free trade and the global economy, our jobs have always been going to countries where the pay is much lower, and the environment is of no concern. This leaves us with 2 choices. Accept the current global economy setup, and the fact that all of us will have to lower our standard of living until it is even with the rest of the world, or implement trade fees to level the playing field. Manufacturers in North America will always be at a relative disadvantage compared to countries like China, where costs are so much lower (and pollution is infinitely higher). The current global economic setup is dangerous for developed countries. We should be buying local for many reasons, not the least of which is to protect our economy, but our environment too!!!The entire North America has been living on the credit card for quite some time, therefore, YES the standard of living should go down.Each day, the USA purchase for 2 billions of dollars more than other people around the world buy in the USA. To balance it out, the other countries use those US $ (surplus since everybody is using the US dollar to buy oil) to purchase US bonds, stock, etc.You cannot continue like this forever. How can you buy more than people buy from you indefinitely?There are a zillion of things that you can no longer buy local anymore, there are probably "zero" TV set made in the USA, no DVD players either and the list goes on and on. So even if you what to buy local, you can't. If it was built in the USA, are you ready to pay 25% more for it, probably not.