What Pontiac DOESN'T tell you about the 2005s!

de387 · Post by **de387** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:34 am

I like reading the reviews and articles and advertising about the new 2005 Vibes.They state the new features with fanfare. Horns blowing. Fireworks going off, etc. But did you know the 2005s only come with half of a luggage rack? Oh, Pontiac doesn't announce that

I had a 2004 that was totaled when a person ran a red stop light and hit my wife and totaled our 3 month old Vibe. Well I just got my new Vibe and discovered that the luggage racks on the 2005s are only for decoration and no longer functional! The Vibes don't have cross bars now and to make it functional, you have to spend - with tax - almost $350 for 2 cross bars (that were included with the 2004s free). they are only available thru the parts dept. Jeff from Indiana

debi5475 · Post by **debi5475** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:47 am

Apparently they weren't that useful anyway. I am getting the thule 751-xt rapid load racks off ebay. They are recommended even if you have the standard racks, since the oem are too low. I am just planning on attaching an Escape soft side bag by Thule, which can attach to the side rails alone, but prefer the safety. I don't feel bad, since I would have to buy the Thule rails anyway. So I am not losing anything by the lack of the bars standard in the 2003-04 models. I miss the cigarette lighter plug in the armrest much more.

Baltovibe · Post by **Baltovibe** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:09 am

Any chance of getting the crossbars off of your totalled 2004 vibe?

ebslopp · Post by **ebslopp** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:11 am

I have the 751xt and love it. Don't waste you money on the factory load bars, the Thule setup is much better quality and can support twice as much weight.

de387 · Post by **de387** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:42 am

...Any chance of getting the crossbars off of your totalled 2004 vibe?...I wish I had thought about that before it left my possesion or I would have! I did keep all the storage nets and floor mats and rear mat! I just noticed something else missing on the 2005s - the little inner glove box in the big one between the seats. The 2004 had a little extra tray between the lid and the huge console glove box. Gee Pontiac - was that a big savings to do away with that?? Oh well, I still love my new vibe. The subwoofer that is added now to the Moon and tunes pacakge sounds nice - that is a nice addition.

de387 · Post by **de387** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:45 am

debi5475 wrote:I have the 751xt and love it. Don't waste you money on the factory load bars, the Thule setup is much better quality and can support twice as much weight.Where can I get the 751xts?thanksjeffIndiana

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:49 am

As said in the other forum, it was pretty much known the crossbars weren't there. You can see it because they're not on the car.Also, I agree, the crossbars on the 03-04 are pretty much useless other than looks. Not that i've used mine, but i'll still leave 'em on there.

Baltovibe · Post by **Baltovibe** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:00 am

de387 said:I just noticed something else missing on the 2005s - the little inner glove box in the big one between the seats. The 2004 had a little extra tray between the lid and the huge console glove box.I head the 2005's also did away with the 2nd 12volt socket in that center storage unit. Does yours have that socket, or just a hole?

jmf2 · Post by **jmf2** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:06 am

Ya, I wish i had kept the cross bars from my old vibe too, i never used them, but i liked the look it added to the car. I didn't know they'd be optional on my new car! Actually i was surprised the entire roof rack survived my sons rolling of our first vibe. Shoulda brought the rack home. Oh well Hey, maybe i can get the ones off my dads vibe! (he just bought a 04) LOLMy wife really complained about losing that little storage compartment under the armrest. I heard a rumor that they dropped it to shorten the height of the armrest, so people wouldn't keep hitting their elbows on it when shifting....hmm. Never happened to me.

de387 · Post by **de387** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:14 am

BaltovibeMemberOnline 4 posts [100%]Baltimore MD Re: What Pontiac DOESN'T tell you about the 2005s! (de387) 1:00 AM 10/8/2004 de387 said:I just noticed something else missing on the 2005s - the little inner glove box in the big one between the seats. The 2004 had a little extra tray between the lid and the huge console glove box.I head the 2005's also did away with the 2nd 12volt socket in that center storage unit. Does yours have that socket, or just a hole? Hi Baltovibe..yes it is gone!!! Damn it Pontiac! Do they have to take away all these nice little things? I plugged my cell phone into that one. My wife said that there was a pocket on the back of the drivers seat that is not on the 2005s but was on our 2004. That makes for 2005 the following missing:cross bars for luggage rack2nd ac adapter plug in glove boxlittle tray in top of glove boxmap holder - magazine holder back of the drivers seat.I wonder what else is missing or what will be deleted for 2006? Maybe they will leave the moonroof and all the controls, but not have it function - and only be a stationary sun roof

Baltovibe · Post by **Baltovibe** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:30 am

Just noticed a complete luggage roof rack from a Vibe on eBay ...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVWbut starting at $100 ... still better than $350 !!

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:44 am

Quote, originally posted by Baltovibe Â»Just noticed a complete luggage roof rack from a Vibe on eBay ...but starting at $100 ... still better than $350 !!wow I might sell my cross bars if i could get around $100.00 for them. and hey, de387 I'm just up the road from you in Roanoke. IM me and make me an offer

debi5475 · Post by **debi5475** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:27 am

buy the thule 751-xt racks on ebayhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...%3AIT

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:08 am

Quote, originally posted by de387 Â»That makes for 2005 the following missing:cross bars for luggage rack2nd ac adapter plug in glove boxlittle tray in top of glove boxmap holder - magazine holder back of the drivers seat.Yeah, all that is missing. You can get the glove box with tray as I posted in this thread, if you're willing to part with $100: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=12602 I think leaving out the 12v in the center glove box was stupid. With luck, the guys in this thread will find the wiring is still there: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=12127 It still blows that I have to spend more money on what was standard, but at least it can be gotten.On the other hand, having curtain air bags and a tire pressure monitor is great. Rather those were available than the other way around. Also, they did fix the battery problem with a much beefier battery. The 2005 6-disc also has auto-volume. They giveth and they taketh away......

Z600 · Post by **Z600** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:55 pm

Sheesh! Does it at least still have the built in power inverter, or did they strip that out too? Man, and I thought the new Vibes were just uglier, but now I find out they're stripped! I'm so glad I have an '03 model....(sorry about the ugly comment... I'm sure lots of people like 'em. I just don't care for that new grille they're using on everything now)~~Z600

JakeBlade · Post by **JakeBlade** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:55 am

I'm pretty red-assed that my 05 Vibe didn't include the adjustable roof rack rails, and the center console 12v socket!What's worse is that I didn't even look or check before I bought it, because I had test drove a couple older ones that had those. I was so geeked about getting my first new car that I didn't check. I didn't check because all of literature I found (and is still listed) doesn't say the roof rack is optional. In fact, the GMBuyPower website and the Pontiac Website both say under STANDARD OPTIONS : "Roof rack, with side rails" or "Luggage rack, with side rails." My window sticker says "Roof Rack" on it... not 'side rails' ... The Pontiac customer service hotline forwarded my call to Pontiac Marketing division, and they said that those are an option now and that the roof rack is the two rails on the roof.The way I see it, that's false advertising. Either GM can give me a set of roof rack rails, or cut me a $350 check. Typical GM BS. I'm just glad that I like the car so much it outweighs my disgust with this penny-pinching cost cutting screw-your-customer-loyalty-base strategy imposed by some half-wit executive trying to win brownie points with his boss. Why any car company would state that it comes with the same STANDARD "Roof rack with side rails" that the previous 2-1/2 years models did and then just all of a sudden put half of it on a car is beyond me.

ToolGuy · Post by **ToolGuy** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:20 am

Quote, originally posted by de387 Â»I like reading the reviews and articles and advertising about the new 2005 Vibes.They state the new features with fanfare. Horns blowing. Fireworks going off, etc. But did you know the 2005s only come with half of a luggage rack? Oh, Pontiac doesn't announce that

I had a 2004 that was totaled when a person ran a red stop light and hit my wife and totaled our 3 month old Vibe. Well I just got my new Vibe and discovered that the luggage racks on the 2005s are only for decoration and no longer functional! The Vibes don't have cross bars now and to make it functional, you have to spend - with tax - almost $350 for 2 cross bars (that were included with the 2004s free). they are only available thru the parts dept. Jeff from Indiana A lot of vehicles these days are having the luggage racks deleted and only available as options. PT Cruiser and Jeep Grand Cherokee are a couple...

SGT · Post by **SGT** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 3:12 am

What gets me is that Pontiac took off standard items on the car. It has been noted that they added a number of things, but all those things only come with optional (extra cost) equipment. (I.E. the subwoofer, tire pressure monitor, speed compensating volume.) A lot of manufacturers decontent the car, so they can lower the cost to make it more appealing. Toyota did this with the Camry and Pontiac/Chevy with the Venture/Montana. The thing that gets me with the Vibe is they decontented the car and raised the price of the 2005s over the 2004s. Oh well. As I said before, I would still buy a 2005 if I were in the market today, but I am glad I got the 2004 when I did. The lighter socket, armrest and roof rack crossbars were all items that really appealed to me when I was shopping around.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:06 am

It's all part of the sinister psycho-marketing plan.By removing standard features, making some of them available as expensive options, and restyling the the appearance to remove things that added to the unique appeal of the vehicle, they make the earlier model years more desireable. This creates more of a demand for used Vibes, and this drives up the resale price, which would otherwise be horrible. By manipulating the market to increase resale price, the value of the Vibe model apppears to increase, which will generate more sales of new Vibes. Pretty crafty

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:43 am

I saw a rental Vibe (Enterprise Rent-a-Car) with a sticker on the back gate that said, (paraphrasing) "This car is equipped with a luggage rack that is decorative, not functional. You may not carry any load on the roof of this vehicle."

MBS · Post by **MBS** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:48 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»It's all part of the sinister psycho-marketing plan.By removing standard features, making some of them available as expensive options, and restyling the the appearance to remove things that added to the unique appeal of the vehicle, they make the earlier model years more desireable. This creates more of a demand for used Vibes, and this drives up the resale price, which would otherwise be horrible. By manipulating the market to increase resale price, the value of the Vibe model apppears to increase, which will generate more sales of new Vibes. Pretty crafty I dunno... you may be attributing a level of intelligence that isn't there. Good theory, though.

Baltovibe · Post by **Baltovibe** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:22 am

I think it is because Pontiac has to find some way to pay for all of those expensive rebates and incentives!

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:48 am

May be there's no more cross bars on roof rack or lighther in box but you got "monochrome paint"... for free. This was $600cdn option for my 2003 and still fighting with GM to get my non-painted cladding replaced due to... well you know all. Also base-priced '05Vibe is nearly $1000cdn less than 2003. ($1000 + $600) I'll change my crossbars and my lighter anytime!!!

GMJAP · Post by **GMJAP** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:58 am

Quote, originally posted by SCTM Â»but you got "monochrome paint"... for free.I sure didn't get it for free. It was on the invoice as an option with a significant (don't remember exactly) $number next to it. Also on the window sticker.It may not have been an 'option' in that it was get it or get it, but I paid for it.I'm sure when the two-tones come out, they'll be that much less. This may be why the 2005s appeared to have a significant price hike.

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:43 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP Â»It may not have been an 'option' in that it was get it or get it, but I paid for it.I meant you still pay less than 2003 base-model.Say $20975cdn 2003 with 2 tone and $19900cdn 2005 for monochrome(an option that cost $600 in '03) so you still pay $1600 less in 2005 and even more if 2 tones comes later on 2005 models... how lucky you are.

Frosty05Vibe · Post by **Frosty05Vibe** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:56 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP Â»I sure didn't get it for free. It was on the invoice as an option with a significant (don't remember exactly) $number next to it. Also on the window sticker.It may not have been an 'option' in that it was get it or get it, but I paid for it.I'm sure when the two-tones come out, they'll be that much less. This may be why the 2005s appeared to have a significant price hike.Yeah, our 05 that we just bought on Monday sure didn't have the mono-tone appearance for free either. It is a $325 option on the 05's.......... but not really since you have NO choice on if you don't want it or not on the 05. Personally I would have liked to have the REAL option of choosing the mono-tone appearance package or not. I would have been fine with getting the darker cladding and then either saving that $325 or applying it toward another option.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:37 pm

I think someone here remarked that the 2005 Canadian MSRP prices are down significantly. The US prices sure aren't.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:39 pm

Quote, originally posted by MiVibe-ToolGuy Â»A lot of vehicles these days are having the luggage racks deleted and only available as options. PT Cruiser and Jeep Grand Cherokee are a couple... To the best of my knowledge, the luggage rack was never std equip on the PT Cruiser. [I owned one.]

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:40 pm

Quote, originally posted by Frosty05Vibe Â»Personally I would have liked to have the REAL option of choosing the mono-tone appearance package or not. I would have been fine with getting the darker cladding and then either saving that $325 or applying it toward another option.You will have that option -- in a few months...

Frosty05Vibe · Post by **Frosty05Vibe** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:15 pm

Quote, originally posted by ragingfish Â»You will have that option -- in a few months...LOL....yeah, I heard that in Nov. IIRC the 05's will have the two -tone scheme again.................unfortunately that helps me zilch since I already bought my Vibe and had no choice but to pay the $325 if I wanted the car.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Oct 08, 2004 11:48 pm

Quote, originally posted by esjones Â»I saw a rental Vibe (Enterprise Rent-a-Car) with a sticker on the back gate that said, (paraphrasing) "This car is equipped with a luggage rack that is decorative, not functional. You may not carry any load on the roof of this vehicle."Probably just a liability thing to keep people from improperly abusing the carQuote, originally posted by MBS Â»I dunno... you may be attributing a level of intelligence that isn't there. Good theory, though.i agree, I don't really think that's the motivation, probably a combination of cutting costs and maybe some "focus group" who didn't particularly care about the dropped features. It would be great if Pontiac had a customer liason person who's job it was to answer our questions here, but I doubt that would ever happen. Supposedly they read the forums, so maybe we need to be careful about saying "I never use that" or "Here's how I got rid of that thing" because they mght interpret that as identifying another feature that can be dropped. (I don't really think this forum has that kind of influence )

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:04 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I don't really think this forum has that kind of influenceAgree with you, if this was, many of us have had their '03 battery (298 post + 10428 reading on battery issue - at least) and cladding (also several post-reading) changed without so much fighting...but this is a long sad story.This is why I think that "05 will never come with 2 tone. Since the lower cladding is back with '03 molding but painted and protected with plastic vinyl tape...

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:13 am

the lower cladding is coming back? I'm all for monotone myself... didn't know it was an option you had to pay for on the 05 since there was no option to get it without otherwise. But I am curious as to how they will accomplish this since the front would have to be redesigned again based on the fact that the the whole front fascia includes the front grills? They would need to redesign it all in two pieces...?

SCTM · Post by **SCTM** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 7:03 am

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik Â»the lower cladding is coming back? Not coming back, it still there... but painted only for '05.I would have took it monotone if I only knew about discoloration on 2 tone. How lucky they are in 2005.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:21 pm

Yep, the two-tone is coming back for '05, but late availability. Not sure when we'll see it, but supposedly it's coming. I also found something out about the '05 that I haven't heard yet (found it in the owner's manual...) They're using dexcool now.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:14 pm

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»I also found something out about the '05 that I haven't heard yet (found it in the owner's manual...) They're using dexcool now. There's a lot of bad thing s said about dexcool here on genvibe. If they are true, then it would probably be a good idea to replace that with a different type coolant soon.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:46 pm

well if your going to change the dexcool to something else... make sure its completely flushed out, even a small amount of dexcool left over when you switch to normal life coolant will cause serious problems. Its not recommended to switch.

MBS · Post by **MBS** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:20 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»There's a lot of bad thing s said about dexcool here on genvibe. If they are true, then it would probably be a good idea to replace that with a different type coolant soon.I tried searching for dexcool, but didn't turn up anything (maybe I wasn't searching correctly, but I tried keywords such as dex, dex*, dexcool. Can you give a summary of what the purported problems are? (or links to the threads?) Thanks.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:32 am

these threads talk about dexoolhttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7072http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7942http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6940

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:55 am

our 03-04 Vibes have an orange coloured coolant that isn't dexcool... but according to the GM courses I took on it, it mixes with dexcool without any problems.Did you know the Aveo has blue coolant?

PopeyeFAFL · Post by **PopeyeFAFL** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:27 am

Last time, I checked, the base price of a 2005 Vibe is lower than a 2004 (at least this is true on the Canadian Market).

MBS · Post by **MBS** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:17 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»these threads talk about dexoolhttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7072http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=7942http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=6940Thanks for the thread links. I skimmed through them. It's hard to be sure what to make of this issue, or if it is, in fact, an "issue." It seems that there was a changeover by GM to using dexcool for the 2005 Vibe and that there were issues of whether or not one should transition to dexcool for earlier model years of the Vibe (which seemed to take a Toyota coolant approach). So far, I've not had any coolant problems. Mainly, my Vibe is just cool!

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:38 am

You'll probably be ok... I had two intake gaskets replaced within 25,000 miles of each other in the Malibu I had prior to the Vibe, which had Dexcool. After the second failure, the dealer actually recommended ditching the Dexcool, since they've noticed problems especially when you get a lot of mileage on the coolant. Hard to say if it was Dexcool or simply batches of faulty gaskets, but there seemed to be an unusual amount of intake gasket failures and the like on a variety of GM engines over the last few years.I wouldn't worry about it too much... I just wouldn't wait the 100K or whatever the recommended mileage is to get a flush and change the coolant, probably wouldn't be a bad idea to do it a bit sooner. On the flip side, if you ever have problems, you won't be at risk for the dealer mistakingly topping off the Vibe's coolant with Dexcool and it not having it, like our '03/'04 models (which the coolant looks strikingly similar to Dexcool like mavrik mentioned, but is a different substance.)

Corny_04963 · Post by **Corny_04963** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:48 am

The factory crossbars are useless. We got the GM (Thule) cross bars and the GM (Thule) bike racks from the Dealer and believe it or not they cost less than from the local neighborhood bike shop Thule dealer. The cross bars came right from the Thule Warehouse and the Bike Racks have a GM emblem but are Thule through and through, Worked quite well in a camping trip where we took the bikes through 3 different states, I left the factory cross bars on the rails but leave them in the center so that we can install the Thule's when needed.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:11 pm

Quote, originally posted by SCTM Â»Agree with you, if this was, many of us have had their '03 battery (298 post + 10428 reading on battery issue - at least) and cladding (also several post-reading) changed without so much fighting...but this is a long sad story.The battery issue carried on so long because Toyota was dragging their feet on the issue. Since the Matrix/Vibe are a sort of joint venture between the 2 companies, one company could not make major changes without permission from the other. As I understood it, GM was willing to replace the 310 CCA battery for a more powerful one, but Toyota didn't want to change it. Toyota stood to lose far more money on this change, as Pontiac only used this battery on the Vibe. Toyota used it on the Matrix, Corolla, Echo, and God only knows what else. If Pontiac was willing to eat the cost on this change for one vehicle line because it was found to be an inadequate part and word got out, then Toyota would look bad if they refused to change the same part that is being used on so many of their cars. That is what I took from that whole situation.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:33 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»It would be great if Pontiac had a customer liason person who's job it was to answer our questions here, but I doubt that would ever happen.We actually do have a person like this. Sort of. His name is Jeff Strausser and he is the head of the Vibe project for GM. Several members here, myself included, have met him at the big Vibe meet in Michigan. You can't really contact him directly through here (he would get swamped), but for really pressing issues that have not been able to be resolved through your dealer, he can be reached through Nick, our site Administrator (NSimkins).Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Supposedly they read the forums, so maybe we need to be careful about saying "I never use that" or "Here's how I got rid of that thing" because they mght interpret that as identifying another feature that can be dropped. (I don't really think this forum has that kind of influence )As I understand it, yes they do have people watching the forums fairly regularly. They've been lurkers since way back near the opening of this site. They certainly don't treat this site like the people here are their bosses when making decisions, but I'd bet that input from this site has more influence on their decision making than you think. Think about it--this site is a great resource for them that provides them with direct and uninhibited customer contact and costs them nothing more than their time to read the posts here. Most business owners could only dream of having such a resource at their disposal. It would seem that the only way that GM could have a closer and more uninhibited understanding of customer opinions and complaints about the car would be to bug every one of them from the factory and listen in on us.

SteveP · Post by **SteveP** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:41 pm

I just want to chime in and verify GM PART # 12498684 is the Thule 751XT. Mine have a GM sticker on them, but they are without a doubt the Thule 751XT. http://www.thuleracks.com/thul...751xt

discojunkie76 · Post by **discojunkie76** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:07 pm

You think thats bad, It was 3 days before I even noticed the front end had been re-designed!!!! I hated it at first but now have have come to love it. Smooooth.

discojunkie76 · Post by **discojunkie76** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:13 pm

I originally was going to pay roughly 230.00 a month for my 05 base vibe, wich was ok. The 04 was only about 10.00 more, with lower financing though. But I took my father with, who has been physically removed from 3 dealerships before. So after everything was all said and done Im at 208.00 and the dealership lost 175.00 on the car. Horray for me!!!

SGT · Post by **SGT** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:48 am

Quote, originally posted by PopeyeFAFL Â»Last time, I checked, the base price of a 2005 Vibe is lower than a 2004 (at least this is true on the Canadian Market).Here in the states the price is higher by 395.00 plus (until at least next month) you have to buy the monotone appearance package which adds additional cost to the car if you didn't want or need it.